Episode 54: Heavy Metals & Your Health with Dr. David Musnick, MD

Podcast Drop Date: 3/19/2025

In this episode of The Functional Medicine Foundations Podcast, host Amber Warren, PA-C, sits down with Dr. David Musnick, MD to discuss the hidden dangers of heavy metals and their impact on your health. Dr. Musnick explains how heavy metals can affect the brain, nervous system, and hormones, reveals common sources of exposure, and provides simple tips to support your body with detoxing heavy metals. Listen to the full episode to learn more!

Transcript:

Amber Warren, PA-C: Welcome to the Functional Medicine Foundations podcast, where we explore root cause medicine, engage in conversation with functional and integrative medicine experts, and build community with like minded health seekers. I'm your host, Amber Warren. Let's dig deeper.

Amber Warren, PA-C: All right everybody, welcome back. Thanks so much for being with us. Dr. David Musnick, who I'm here with, is a highly accomplished clinician and diagnostic diagnostician specializing in orthopedic sports medicine and functional medicine, with board certifications in both sports medicine and internal medicine. He brings an impressive 33 year background in sports medicine and internal medicine, and 26 years in functional medicine to include diagnostics and treatment in heavy metals. Doctor Musnick's extensive experience has led to the development of his unique assessment and treatment approach, showcased through countless cases. Not only has his work been published in numerous textbooks, he's also a sought after speaker on various conditions, notably arthritis and concussions. Originating from Boston and spending much of his time in Seattle, Doctor Musnick now calls Idaho his home, bringing his expertise and passion for athletics, outdoor activities and specialized specialized treatments in our community. Welcome, Dr. Musnick!

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Thank you.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Thanks for being here. So tonight this has been a topic that I think has been really spoken a lot about in even in the last year or two. More and more attention being brought to this topic of heavy metal toxicity. And so why should we be concerned about heavy metals and the way that they impact our body?

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Well, heavy metals can harm a person's brain, their nervous system, their immune system. Heavy metals can be the major cause of Alzheimer's disease and dementia. Heavy metals can make it so that someone's more susceptible to an autoimmune condition or develops an autoimmune condition. I'm finding so many people with fatigue and fatigue related symptoms, which is lower energy that can be directly related to heavy metals. Neuropathy has been known for a long time when people have nerve related pain in their feet and legs. And a lot of people think it's just diabetes. But one of the biggest reasons for neuropathy in the legs is heavy metals. And so there's so many things that heavy metals can do to damage tissues and cells, conditions they cause. Uh, and you probably know, I've taken a lot of deep dives; 28 years in functional medicine and so many deep dives and learning experiences. And I now believe this is the most important thing we can look into.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Really?

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah, I have reasons for this, but I've come to that conclusion over the last six months that that this is the most important, one of the most important factors that are affecting our health right now.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Interesting. And so is it all heavy metals. Which ones do you consider to be the more toxic?

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Okay, so you know, what's interesting is well, I've been looking at this for, like, as long as I've been in functional medicine, so way back when, you know, like 26, 28 years ago, we were looking at mercury and lead and really that's it. And measuring those things because mercury was coming from dental amalgam fillings and, and also, I mean, mercury is in the air too, from air pollution. But a lot of people were being exposed to it in their fillings. And then, you know, lead was coming from, uh, quote, leaded paint, which we don't have anymore, but it's still in the environment. So we were looking a lot at those two metals but nowadays, there's some other really important metals that we have to look at. And some of them are, you know, very surprising. But the ones that we really have to look at our aluminum.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Barium, gadolinium and gadolinium is actually from contrast from MRIs. Cadmium, very, very important metal. And now what I would characterize as the radioactive heavy metals cesium and uranium. And these are just a few of them.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And also including arsenic.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right. So let's talk about some of the sources of the various metals that you just mentioned. I know water, right. City water specifically. I know in this area I've seen a lot of city water tests from different clients. Cadmium is high.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah,

Amber Warren, PA-C: I've seen that. Arsenic?

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yes. It is.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Is one that's high in our city water?

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah. Believe it or not, there's uranium in our water.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And where. So where are these metals coming from that are leaching into our water supply?

Dr. David Musnick, MD: So, I mean, I would call that multiple ways. They're getting into the water supply and the food supply.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And the air.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: So you have to sort of break it down that way and say, well, if it gets in the air, it's going to get on the soil.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And if it's in the air, it's going to get in the water. And so but there's other sources like if you take aluminum, one of the, one of the most well known sources was Antiperspirants.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And so that's what I've been telling people for years. Don't use an antiperspirant. Use a deodorant.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Well thankfully there's so many I feel like there's so many different options for aluminum free, paraben free deodorants that actually work.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: That's true.

Amber Warren, PA-C: There's a lot now.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Right. And so what? You know what else? Like don't cook with aluminum foil.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: You know, when people heat things up with aluminum foil or they pack things, go to work with aluminum foil or whatever, and then, you know, aluminum coated cookware.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yep.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And there's many other sources of aluminum, I mean. So. So if someone said, hey, by doing these things, can I not be exposed to aluminum? No, you're being exposed to it in the air. And you're being exposed to it in the water, but you can decrease the amount of exposure. You know, people often ask me, you know, "What should I have in my home?" Well, at least a reverse osmosis filter.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Okay.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So at minimum, that's my next question was at minimum and an O filter.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: A minimum. But something called a water distillation system is even better. And I'm at the point which you may or may not know where I am actually putting small amounts of chelating agents in my water. I have a reverse osmosis and multi-stage carbon filtration under my sink, in my house in Star. And I originally got it because I heard that it could actually filter out radioactive uranium. Believe it or not, not many can do that. But I'm at the point where I'm putting some, you know, drops of chelating agents in there.

Amber Warren, PA-C: What are you using?

Dr. David Musnick, MD: I'm actually using calcium disodium EDTA a little bit.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: So there's so many sources of these metals. And unfortunately, no matter how many things you do, the average person is still going to have fairly high levels of metals. And the other metal I forgot to mention is graphene.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And it's something where you're being exposed to with the geoengineering, with what's in the air from coming from the airplanes. And it's been in the shots and there's a lot of issues with graphene. And so each one of these metals can cause different problems like just for instance cadmium.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Cadmium is very toxic to the kidneys. And what I've been noticing like in the past ten years is more and more people coming in with what's called kidney insufficiency, Renal insufficiency. Which means it's dysfunction of their kidneys. Now, these are people that have two kidneys. Everybody always used to think, well, I'm not going to have a problem with my kidneys. I could even give a kidney and have. And it's not that way anymore. And I'm not telling people don't donate a kidney, but our kidneys are under insult. All of our organs are under, you know, an insult from these different things. So what's interesting, and this is just a side note, I've often found, like measuring the heavy metals in someone with a kidney insufficiency and then starting a metal chelation program and then doing frequency specific microcurrent to protect the kidneys. I've had nobody go for a kidney transplant. I've had nobody go for dialysis. I've been able to preserve everybody's kidney function with this plus some dietary things.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And that is just like one metal, that's just cadmium. Cadmium really insults the kidneys.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Aluminum really insults.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I was going to say don't the majority of heavy metals? Can't they all insult the kidney?

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Because you detox, you don't just detox your liver. Your kidneys are also really important part of detox.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: The kidneys are really getting barraged by metals. And remember, metals are, you know, in tissues. And then, yeah, the kidneys are trying to filter out some of the metals, so they're getting damaged by the metals at the same time.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And for those that don't know, it is literally like $7 comprehensive or even basic metabolic panel to look at kidney function as a just initial.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: It's not that much of a kidney.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. Kidney function to see if one of those 3 or 4 markers we can look at is, is.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And I think that anybody that's getting, you know, labs once a year or whatever should ask their clinician, okay, hey what's my estimated GFR? What's my creatinine? Is there any issue? I've literally had patients that came in and I looked at that and they were off and nobody told them about it.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. It's kind of the classic don't take Advil and stay hydrated and you'll be fine. But no one's actually saying, what are the other things that insult our kidneys? And why is my GFR my. Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: But did you know that the average kidney doctor, if you have kidney insufficiency they can't really do much or they don't really do much. They might put you on an ACE inhibitor or something, but they can't do much to preserve the kidneys. And in most people, the kidney function goes down fairly rapidly. So we can do a fair amount about.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Conditions we don't really, you know, we'll wait until you become a diabetic or we'll wait until you have the heart attack or we'll wait, you know, like no one's really looking upstream and trying to figure out root cause. So yeah, it's not that different than how we kind of manage other conditions and diseases.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: But, you know, I also like the brain and...

Amber Warren, PA-C: We know you do.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: I think you gotta have a good functioning brain. And when you start looking at these metals like mercury and aluminum are extremely toxic to the brain. Extremely toxic! And aluminum has been highly linked to cognitive decline. And remember, we're not just talking about do you have Alzheimer's or not? Because everybody thinks, oh, that's pretty far away. It's like, if you don't protect your brain and take measures to protect your brain, you know, like six months from now, you're, hey, what if you have trouble finding words? Or what if your memory's off and like, you know, we don't actually have great, we don't have good bloodwork to test for this. I mean, in our clinic, we have a three page brain region questionnaire where we can start screening some subtle symptoms of this. But I really think people have to have a goal to keep my heart healthy and my brain healthy, and my kidneys healthy and my gut healthy and my hormones healthy. I mean, we've got to have we have to have targeted health goals.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Well, and it's not just, you know, from my understanding, it's not just also an aging thing that happens in as an adult. I know that there's data that links aluminum toxicity from various different shots or whatnot to low IQ in children. So it starts really early. This isn't just something that people that are 50, 60, 70 years old need to be concerned about.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: No, that's a good, that's a good point because we have an epidemic of brain disorders in children and teenagers.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Mental health issues.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Including depression.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yep.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Including anxiety. And including ADHD, which is a focusing problem and movement problem. But yes. No, these things are affecting.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Everyone.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: At least the brain related issue with metals and other things of course. But metals, they're affecting everybody. You don't have to be older to have this effect.

Amber Warren, PA-C: No. So it's not just the rule is no longer just eat organic and drink clean water. That's honestly not enough.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: It's not enough.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Because we're being insulted from the air. Air pollution and what are other sources? So we've got air.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: So the air pollution is the biggest source right now.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Bigger than food and water?

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yes, but the air pollution is is going into the food. I mean, it's it's contaminating the soil so that when you eat the food, you're getting the metals.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And then so water, the water, the food, materials we use the shots they have metals in them. So but I think you know the in the forest fire smoke we've been exposed to has metals in it. So I mean there's a lot nobody's without exposure right now. And what's interesting is there was a study recently where they took snow from some part of Colorado that was not Denver. I mean, some...

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah, like not in the big city.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: It was some pristine area in the mountains someplace. And they sent it to a lab for analysis. And there were high levels of, I mean, outrageous levels of metals.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Oh, goodness.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And then I know someone who did this, you know, you've probably heard of the Priest Lake area in Idaho. That's supposed to be a pretty pristine area. And they sent rain water and lake water for analysis, and the aluminum levels were just high enough to cause Alzheimer's disease in people. I mean, very, very high levels that, you know, our exposure to these metals is like escalating.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: So, you know, I'm at the point now where I think that the vast majority of people should have at least a heavy metals challenge urine test, and ideally, a combination with a heavy metals hair analysis, because what a lot of people don't realize is the hair, as long as you don't dye your hair will show some metals that the urine metals challenge test doesn't show. And one thing that we're doing here that I at least take pride in is we challenge with two different chelating agents. So I feel we're getting really good representative samples because most places all they challenge with is DMSA. But we're adding calcium disodium EDTA into this. So we're getting a much broader example and I'll tell you recently I had my own test done. It's upsetting when you see this. And like, I've been eating organic for years. I'm like one of the purest people on the planet. I have the best filtered water. My lead was high, my mercury was high, my aluminum was high. And it's like, you know, and I know how I'm getting exposed to this, but it's like, if I'm having levels like this, the vast majority of people are too, because I've been I've been sort of into functional medicine for 28 years and like eating really clean and drinking pure water for a long time. And so for me to have metals like this is like we're just getting exposed to them, you know, and I feel like anybody with fatigue, anybody with any brain fog, anybody with any brain issues, anybody with a kidney issue, anybody even with an autoimmune issue needs to be tested for metal.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: With the right type of test. And then we then one thing I pride myself on here is that we will look at these tests and figure out that there's there's other issues going on, because one of the other issues that's fascinating, which people don't realize, metals are insulting the lungs. I have had so many patients lately that short of breath, the pulmonologist doesn't know why the pulmonary tests come back. Okay. The cardiology tests come back. Okay. They're still short of breath. And then we put a pulse ox on their finger, walk them around and they go from what seems to be normal 97, 96. They go below 90. Just walking for four minutes fast. That that's not normal. And so one of the things that that I've looked into and discovered is the damage to our red blood cells, which are, you know, I could say, one of the most important cells in the body. They deliver oxygen. And, you know, recently I've been privileged to look at them under the microscope, and they can look extremely damaged. They can look distressed, they can look clumped together, and they can't get through the capillaries to deliver the oxygen when they're like this. So one thing the metals are doing is damaging red blood cells. And, you know, you don't even hear most functional medicine people talking about damage to red cells. But I think that issue and we also will call some of this oxidative stress damage. It's extremely important. Like I, I when I see patients, I don't just label what's wrong with them or disease. I say, you know, we have processes that we have to look at. And one of them is, what's the health of your red blood cells? How do we get them better so they can deliver oxygen ideally. And so I think that's another issue. It's another goal. You know, get your red blood cells as healthy as possible so your lungs are healthy and you're able to deliver the oxygen. Because what most people don't realize is you have to deliver oxygen to every tissue in your body. Brain, everywhere.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. No, to keep them functioning well and to feel good and for healing, because oxygen is very healing.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Very, very important.

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Amber Warren, PA-C: So we've talked about exposure and some preventative measures, but I know everyone's going to want to hear, well, what can I do? What's the application at home? So I think and you're really good at this because I've heard you I've heard you lecture on this so many times, foods that can help. And I know it's probably not enough, but at least that can help assist the body in detoxification of some of these metals. I know cilantro is one of them. I know you love parsley for the brain.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah, so let me talk about cilantro for a second.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I knew you would.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Something, yeah. So cilantro has some interesting characteristics, especially regarding detoxification of mercury. And so one thing people can do is, you know, you can add cilantro leaves to whatever, you know, and when you order food and if there's a possibility of getting cilantro, tell them to loaded with that. But I would tell people, you know make a cilantro pesto because then it's really concentrated. And, I mean, the best way to do it is, you know, use organic olive oil and then whatever nut you want, whether it's pine nuts or walnuts and then, like, literally at least a whole head of leaves and put it in there and really blend it in. It'll really turned dark green. And then put some basil leaves in to make it taste good. And then sometimes, you know, like in, you know, like I have a little pesto maker, Hamilton Beach. It's glass.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I know you brought it as an elephant gift to a Christmas party once. I won't forget that.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Oh, wow.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And you taped the recipe to the side of it.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Oh, yeah. That is an incredible gift. It's hard to find a glass pesto. They're mostly plastic.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Well, you brought one. You found one!

Dr. David Musnick, MD: We're not, sometime in a podcast, we should address microplastics. Because I just heard that they've been biopsying brains of people with Alzheimer's and other things. And finding enough plastic in a person's brain to equal a plastic spoon.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I know and talk about talk about the exposure is literally everywhere of these microplastics.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: But in terms of the pesto getting back to...

Amber Warren, PA-C: Let's Go back to the pesto

Dr. David Musnick, MD: So you sort of mix enough basil to make it taste like basil pesto. But you put a lot of the cilantro organic cilantro and to have the detoxification properties. And you just put it on on you put it on toast like like you can make like a detox toast.

Amber Warren, PA-C: As long as it's organic and probably gluten free.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: So you have your toast and then just smear the pesto all over it. Or you can make avocado an incredible detox thing, you know, like you've heard of avocado toast.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yep.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Well, but put the pesto on first, then the avocado and broccoli sprouts because broccoli sprouts with sulforaphane have some detoxification mechanisms.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And those are so easy to make at home on your own.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Right. So that's like an incredible like detox toast. And so but you can put the pesto on fish. And the other thing I would recommend is like when people eat fish take some chlorella with you.

Amber Warren, PA-C: That's a good idea.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And we have a particular brand at the clinic that we like, but I'm telling people, you go eat fish. Like 15 to 20 of those little green tablets right after that meal or during the meal to bind the mercury in it.

Amber Warren, PA-C: How about chlorella to help bind some contrast agents if someone's going to have some diagnostic tests?

Dr. David Musnick, MD: I see contrast agents usually fall in the category of iodine contrast agents, which I think are a lot safer.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And gadolinium. And the problem with gadolinium is it's a heavy metal and certain forms of it. None of the forms completely leave the body after you do the contrast. So it goes in the brain or someplace and it stays there. Some of it comes out, but a lot of it stays there. So I say to people, look, if you don't need contrast, do your MRI without it.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: But I don't know a way of, the binding of gadolinium is very complex. There's some very special chelating agents to try to do it.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right. Okay. Back to the food, because I do think it's important. People want to know what they can do at home tomorrow. So we've got Cilantro pesto. What other kind of foods can people be consuming? A lot of I know, staying hydrated.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Sprouts. Broccoli.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Sprouts. You mentioned that.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: You can even put broccoli sprouts in the past in the in the pesto.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I throw broccoli sprouts in the smoothies I make for my kids.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah, you can do that.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah. You know, I mean you could put chlorella in a smoothie.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. That's true.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: But chlorella doesn't taste very good.

Amber Warren, PA-C: That's easier just to take.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So what are foods we want to make sure we avoid? So you said something about fish which reminded me of fish that are higher in mercury.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: The bigger fish.

Amber Warren, PA-C: large fish.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Bigger fish. And it's not just mercury. They're accumulating all kinds of metals in the ocean.

Amber Warren, PA-C: In the ocean floor. Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: So even halibut, halibut, tuna, those are known to have lots. Lots of metals. And so people need to stay with smaller fish like trout. But the other issue is like shellfish, like shrimp, scallops. There at the at the edge of the. They're highly contaminated with with metals too.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: So this even brings up an interesting thing. Did you know that? And that a lot of people take glucosamine sulfate for their joints, but the average glucosamine sulfate is from mollusks. So we have a glucosamine sulfate here that's not from mollusk shells like clams or whatever. It's from non-GMO corn. It's much cleaner. So one time, like years ago, I did a calculation about how much lead and mercury someone's going to get if they're trying to support their joints with glucosamine sulfate. So the other thing is, did you know that some Indian herbs like turmeric are contaminated with heavy metals?

Amber Warren, PA-C: This is why we just can't preach enough the importance of good quality clean supplementation. The amount of clients that come in on supplements from I won't name brands, but from your local Walmart, Walgreens, Costco, Amazon. Be so careful because it's just it's such an unregulated industry.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: I know.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And it's just really concerning what people could be taking. And they think they're doing so good because it's not something that you're it's not like it's a fish that you're only eating every 2 to 3 weeks. You're consuming that one 1 to 2 times a day that supplement sometimes more. And so it's really important to pay attention to those things.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah. And you want to make sure any fish oil product says that it's verified and tested.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Fish oil can be so dirty for the reason we just talked about.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: I've sort of found out recently that some of the companies, they haven't been doing heavy metal testing for 2 to 3 years.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Oh I know.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And sometimes...

Amber Warren, PA-C: Because it's hard to get a clean product.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: A bigger company buys the smaller company, and then they're not doing the testing anymore.

Amber Warren, PA-C: They don't have the regulations.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah but, Amber, I wish I could say that just food could do the trick.

Amber Warren, PA-C: No, I know, I know.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: But we need certain supplements. And as far as I'm concerned, there's a major role for IVs for this.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. And this is this is definitely where I want to go next. And I know you've been really, like, truly pouring your heart and soul over the last, you've been talking about it for at least 6 to 9 months. IV therapy protocols to help assist the body with getting some of these metals out.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yes.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And we're about to launch an IV therapy protocol here at our Eagle FMI location to help do this. So talk to us about how IV therapy can really help the body detoxify some of these metals. And when we're detoxing these metals, we're also helping the body to detox other chemicals as well. It's not like it's only helping to get metals out of the body. So there's vast benefits that come.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah that's true. So it turns out that, you know, if you say, okay, if I want to get a product, a detoxification product, I want to get something that's going to bind onto a metal tightly, but it's not going to be just a binder. It's got to chelate that metal so.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And what does that mean for listeners?

Dr. David Musnick, MD: So you know, we talk about say binders for mold to biotoxins.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Which helps to grab on to the mycotoxin to it and push it out of the body.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Gi tract and poop it out. But, you know chelating agents can do their job by tightly binding to metals. And then they're eliminated either through the kidneys, through urine. We know they're eliminated through urine or stool or both. So, so chelating agents are stronger than binding agents. And a lot of these have been extremely well researched. Some of them are oral. But the ones that we're talking about administering IV, it turns out that EDTA has been used for a long time for sort of cardiovascular disease, but it turns out that, you know, the the type of EDTA that was being used was trying to bind calcium. Well, we don't want to bind calcium with it. Now, what we want to do is we want to collate the metals. So the appropriate type of chelating agent is called calcium disodium EDTA. It's got calcium in it so it doesn't deplete the body of calcium. And we're using it specifically to chelate certain types of metals. And as far as I'm concerned, you know, it's it's very good for lead. It's very good. It's reasonable for aluminum, not terrific for aluminum. But the combination of calcium disodium EDTA and just what I would call low dose IV Vitamin C, ten grams run together because you can actually put ten grams of IVC in with the calcium that you actually push the calcium disodium EDTA in can bind a lot of metals and it does some other things. It really helps the red blood cells. It's remarkable when you see a microscopy slide of these distressed damaged red blood cells. They'll come together and then, you know, like after a few, maybe 2 to 3 EDTA IVs and you look at you, then you see it. It's like the red cells look actually normal.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And they're not clumped together. And you go, you know, that's so good. The other things that are really helpful are IV Alpha-lipoic acid, which is a really important antioxidant, and IV glutathione, which is an important antioxidant. And then we we have a program here that I've devised with certain oral agents to support this program in between that are going to deal with graphene. That's going to have certain doses of vitamin C, certain doses of the oral calcium disodium EDTA to complement this program. Because you have you have to and and the other thing you have to deal with is microclots and some other things that are going on. So I really think that the IV program is important because I wish I could say that orals get into the brain at high enough doses, but I don't think they do.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah, the intravenous route is nothing.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah, we got to get them everywhere. Literally every compartment of the body. Intravenous will do that.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Well. And we talked about on a previous episode regarding IV therapy too. The issue with oral supplementation, especially in this case, is the gut microbiome is now so distressed because of the stress of heavy metals and our stressful lives that we really worry about absorption issues as well with these oral supplements. So intravenous also is really an A plus game plan.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Well, plus the amount of say calcium disodium EDTA you need. It has to be liposomal.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: It can upset some people's stomach.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And their gut. But but I would say, you know, and I've had the treatment myself. It's it's not that bad.

Amber Warren, PA-C: It's it's well tolerated.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah, I mean, I tolerate it well. I've known a lot of people that had it well tolerated. If you do it correctly, it's well tolerated. But I think we're going to see a lot of results in terms of improved energy and just all kinds of long term results, but I think with the amount of levels of these metals I'm seeing in people, people can think of, okay, I need to get assessed. I need to get started on an IV therapy program, and then we'll tell them approximately how often you need it, what to do with the orals. And it's just going to be a part of like wellness.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Absolutely. Preventative health

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Not just diseases but preventative. But also, you know, targeted to diseases because, you know, as far as I'm concerned, if someone's got an autoimmune condition, Parkinson's, MS, and they've got high loads of metals, we have to we have to approach it with the metals and other aspects of functional medicine.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So if a client is interested in seeing their heavy metal burden and interested in these IV protocols, they essentially need a consult with you which establishes care. And then they can get the heavy metal testing done and then get started on the treatment as soon as they can.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: They get a whole program laid out in terms of okay, because as you remember, like, we may put them on some actual chelating medications. Like, we do use something called DMSA to provoke the DMSA may be part of their program, especially if they have high mercury levels. I mean, there's there's actually oral DMPs, which is good for mercury. But because these agents work on different metals, it has to be a pretty refined program of, you know, the calcium disodium EDTA with the vitamin C, it's going to be a center of, of the IVs, along with the Alpha-lipoic acid and glutathione. But there may there will be, for each person, individually tailored programs with chelating medications and supplements to say, okay, this is going to be a complete program.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I'm so thrilled that you're going to be offering that. This is so exciting. So you've made it very clear that this applies to everybody.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: There is not just one one person that shouldn't be at least aware of the situation of heavy metal toxicity.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah, it really does. Everyone has. Undiagnosed headaches, brain fog.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Headaches is a good one.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Fatigue. You know, ADHD. I mean, there are so many conditions that it's just like, you know, if someone says, look, I've got this chronic condition. I'm not kidding about.

Amber Warren, PA-C: How about anxiety? Anxiety, insomnia. I mean, you said how it affects the brain. So I'm just thinking panic attacks, anxiety and depression. Yeah. Chronic brain fog.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah. This is fascinating.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Concentration.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Did you know? That you know, we can do EEGs in the brain? Yes, but there's something called QEEG or certain ways to measure voltage from different parts of the brain. And if certain parts of the brain don't have enough voltage because of the heavy metals and the electrons being taken out.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: People can have anxiety and depression that will not respond well to medication or, you know. So, yeah, I mean, there's so many, I think mood disorders that can be related.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Or even we've been talking about a lot about this in our new weight loss program. Resistance or weight loss resistance. Right. You can't lose weight or you lose weight doing some really strict regimen for 3 to 6 months, and then it all comes back. Or you take a GLP-1 and then lose weight and it all comes back, right? And that's when you have to start looking at these hidden toxicities in the body.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: I totally agree with that.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So we run. Yeah we run these tox toxicity tests on our clients that are now engaging with us for metabolic weight loss.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And some people might say okay, well what if I just do sauna and I say, you know what? Sauna. Is generally good, but it doesn't get rid of most metals.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah, I would agree.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: It's pretty good for certain chemicals. But it doesn't do the trick for most metals.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Because it's not a chelating agent.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yes. And and you know, when they measure what's coming out in the sweat, it's not like massive amounts of metals. It's more some of these chemicals, environmental toxicity. So it can be part of a detoxification program. But it's not going to do the trick for the metals.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. I would agree with that. Thank you, thank you, thank you. There are so many wonderful nuggets of just wisdom and knowledge and awareness. And it's not we're not trying to be an alarmist by any means in this conversation. It's our goal is just to again provide that awareness and that education so that our clients, especially those that have been suffering for so long and not feeling heard by their, you know, conventional medical provider institution, whatever that may be, that there could be answers and something that hasn't been tested before. And I think turning to these heavy metal or just any kind of toxicity is a really good place to turn if if you've been struggling for a long time.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah. And it's like it's not like any place in the United States is going to be less than some other place unless you live near a factory, of course, that can be an issue.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Well, we have a lot of agriculture in this area, though, and we know that these things in the air, these particles can travel far. So that's I mean even. Yeah, our area is not not at all.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Oh, here's one other point I just forgot. Sorry.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Another did you know you.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Asked me about food?

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yes.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yeah. A while back, the information came out about arsenic in rice.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Yes.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And in chicken.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: In chickens. Chickens are being shot with arsenic to get a pink color.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I know.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And so you got to go with the organic, you know, chickens with organic feed. And you want chickens that move. But, you know, there's some areas that were not for, uh, you know, sprayed with arsenic containing, pesticides.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: So Lundberg Farm rice was supposedly.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yes.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Much lower arsenic than rice from other places. And I forgot to say, you know, one of the major places where people are getting exposed to arsenic is rice.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I know.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: I mean, I went to the Rice Asian today in Eagle, and I'm seeing everybody ordering these, you know, these these rolls with all the rice.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I told you, you can't keep just eating conventional meat and and rice. I mean, we preach this stuff all the time.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: Don't get meat there, I get I get vegetarian.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Did you ask if they serve Lundberg Rice there?

Dr. David Musnick, MD: I get vegetarian dishes and I don't eat rice there. But anyway, I was just commenting that I saw like this teenager with two. I said, wow, that's really beautiful. What are those sushi rolls that she goes, oh, there's two of them. And they were this long each, and they were filled with rice.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: She's been exposed to a lot of arsenic. People don't realize that.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So they think they're eating healthy.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And they can make healthier choices, even regarding to which rice they're eating.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right. No I agree. So, guys, cilantro pesto it is for the rest of your life. Sorry.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: And let's get the metals tested in you.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And get the metals tested.

Dr. David Musnick, MD: On a program.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yes, yes no I agree. Thank you so much.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Thank you so much for tuning in. And we'll see you soon. Thank you for listening to the Functional Medicine Foundations podcast. For more information on topics covered today. Specialties available at the FMI Center for Optimal Health and the highest Quality of supplements and more, go to funmedfoundations.com.